TOPGREENER - TDOS5-J-W-STICKERED PIR Passive Infrared Motion Sensor Switch, No Neutral Required, 4A 500W 1/8HP, 120-277VAC, Occupancy Vacancy, Ground Wire Required, Single Pole, TDOS5-J … Vacancy-Only Motion Sensor Switch, 2A, Single-Pole, No Neutral Required, White Coordinating Claro Wall Plate and accessories Coordinating Claro Wall Plate and accessories sold seperately. Thanks for the response. Sensitivity can be adjusted, so the lights won’t switch off at inconvenient times. Probably is will NOT work without the ground. You could buy a motion switch that required a neutral. For some reason this neutral is not required, but a ground is. There’s no need to wave your hands at the sensor. If that path is not connected, the sensor won't work after the load has been off for a while. Could it be that the sensing switch is bad? If you are new here, please review posting/commenting guidelines. So far I have had no luck getting my fish tool through my wall. It's a simple, easy, and low cost way to save energy and add automation to your home. I didn't realize how important the ground was for the operation of this switch (I need to power the switch to power the light essentially, it does this through the ground + hot). Press J to jump to the feed. The MS-OPS6M2U-DV and MS-VPS6M2U products allow the installer to configure the device to connect to either ground or neutral. This makes CFLs flicker and may not work at all with very low-watt loads; also it's a safety concern when changing a bulb in a supposedly-off fixture. Let Lutron’s Maestro Vacancy Sensor switch automatically turn lights off for you. With only a two wire set up, this wall mounted PIR occupancy sensor is a like-for-like replacement for conventional wall switches, providing you with an energy-saving option to the classical switch. Is it a safety issue alone or does it affect the fuction of the sensor somehow? Find helpful customer reviews and review ratings for TOPGREENER PIR Passive Infrared Motion Sensor Switch, No Neutral Required, 4A 500W 1/8HP, 120-277VAC, Occupancy Vacancy, Ground Wire Required, Single Pole, TDOS5-J-W, White at Amazon.com. I was having the same problem with this sensor switch. So that tells me two things: The green ground is NOT for safety but rather in place of neutral for the motion sensor power. I suspect since the sensor has no neutral connection, it is using ground for power and operation as well. Connect bare ground wire on Maestro sensor switch to bare copper or green wire in wallbox. I tried installing the sensor last night and it wouldn't work. In my switch box, I had two black wires and two white wires that were tied together. PROBLEM SOLVED! He said to just cut off the bare wire on the device. sensors that use the ground wire to function is not permitted. If you indeed do have a grounded box, simply attach the ground wire to it with a ground screw. If you have the access, replace that romex in your wall with a 3-conductor one (Black, White, Red and ground) Run black as your hot, white as your neutral and red to your load. I quit buying incandescent bulbs years ago. I was having the same problem. He said the device didn't "like" the ground attachment and that I could just connect the green wire in with all the other white wires. The sensor will work without the ground but it is needed for your safety. Device will not function if it is not grounded. It may also be possible to attach a ground tail to the metal box and connect it to the dimmer. The tech was very helpful and immediately knew what was wrong. I was having the same problem. But the HOSS does come with some compromises. To do that it needs a path to Neutral; some models require Neutral, others require Ground (which is used to draw power, but the current is less than 1ma is considered harmless). Click on the above picture to read the instruction sheet. New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast, More posts from the HomeImprovement community. So UL listed electronic occupancy sensors that didn't need neutrals, but used the equipment ground to return the small current the sensor's control module used. Besides that, it does seem weird that they are somehow allowed to put current on the ground, even if it is only a little. I had the thing hooked up correctly but the light was on and would not go off, and the switch would not respond to manual on/off. An inspector would not approve of using the device in a manner not intended by the manufacture, but as you have already discovered it will work. You can (and should) connect it to neutral if you have the option. Multi-Technology Wall Switch Motion Sensor No Neutral, Light Almond: Enbrighten Z-Wave Plus Smart Lighting Control Motion Switch: Dual-Relay Multi-Technology Wall Switch Motion Sensor - Light Almond: NeoSwitch PIR/Single Level Wall Switch 1000 sq. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. There are a few other smart dimmers that work with no neutral, but I didn’t list because they don’t work with LED lights. Believe it or not that narrows down the field quite a bit. Please advise! But most switch boxes will have the whites in there and accessible, so that’s not a big deal. Well that's not exactly true, the main panel yes, but to a sub panel, no. 2. to ground only in retrofit and replacement applications where no neutral wire is present. I went ahead and put in an motion detector for a single pole light switch. It is a no neutral switch, back box mounted, wall, PIR, occupancy sensor. anything is possible, its very easy to instal as you can see. Just return it to the store, get a new one and try it again. I do not have a ground wire (though the conduit should act as a ground when properly done) and no neutral (as this sensor does not have one either). Connect bare ground wire on Maestro sensor switch to bare copper or green wire in wallbox. The HOSS does require a neutral (white) wire. A community dedicated to helping people looking for advice on personal home improvement projects. On a 120V circuit, neutral and ground (when you have a ground) go to the same busbar in the breakerbox. How does it work? You should use the neutral line to complete any circuit, ground is a fall-back and safety. Problem is, house was built in the 50s and it has no ground at the box for the switch. Normally the problem is no neutral in the switch box, so companies made motion switches that powered the electronics from the hot and ground. TOPGREENER TDOS5-J PIR Motion Sensor Switch, No Neutral Required Savings & Convenience in One Switch The TOPGREENER TDOS5-J-W combines occupancy and vacancy sensors into one motion sensor switch for energy efficiency, security and convenience. Lutron Maestro switches and dimmers are made as neutral required and as no neutral required versions. Note that older sensor switches did not use Neutral or Ground, but drew their standby current through the load (essentially like a dimmer set to a very low setting). • To connect to ground, simply install the product in its "out-of-the box" condition. Read honest … Other than the fact that I obviously have no ground (which I wouldn't have had regardless) is there any other potential issue with this setup? After trying everything and even reading this thread, I called the company. • For models with only a neutral (white) wire, (OPS6M2N-DV, VPS6M2N-DV). I did this and it has been working fine. My lights were working, In my switch box, I had two black wires and two white wires that were tied together. Since you mention trying to fish wire, then I assume you have wiring through conduit, which may be grounded. http://www.lutron.com/TechnicalDocumentLibrary/369-143.pdf Normally the problem is no neutral in the switch box, so companies made motion switches that powered the electronics from the hot and ground. A Lutron switch costs almost twice as much. Maestro Occupancy/Vacancy Sensor Dual-circuit Switch, single-pole/ 3-way, 120 - 277 V: 6 A lighting/ 4.4 A fan (120 V only) MS-B202: Maestro Occupancy/Vacancy Sensor Dual-circuit Switch, no neutral wire, single-pole, 120 - 277 V Chances are, that wire goes up into a box, probably in your light, where you have access to hot, load and light wires. From the Manufacturer. According to Q&A on homedepot.com, the switch uses < 1 watt when "off". The instructions do say that a ground is absolutely required for the unit to function. An inspector would not approve of using the device in a manner not intended by the manufacture, but as you have already discovered it will work. Occupancy sensors require standby power to operate the sensor when the load is "off". Here are my two main requirements for a no neutral smart switch: 1. I asked the mfg if this is ok (closed til Monday). The instructions say that the ground MUST be properly connected for the switch to work, but I don't know why or how that is. ️ PRODUCT REVIEW: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B005WM3ALC/?tag=associates2607-20 ️ TODAY'S DEALS: https://amzn.to/36kmCEY Recently I purchased this occupancy sensing switch: http://www.homedepot.com/buy/lutron-maestro-2-amp-occupancy-sensing-switch-light-almond-393029.html#customer_reviews. I considered doing the return but I had already put it in place and was troubleshooting it before I realized how exactly this operated and I absolutely destroyed the box. Thanks! I suspect that this part of my house is framed differently than other parts with ballon framing and wide open stud access from the basement. C by GE's new smart switches don't need a hub, or a neutral wire. Occupancy Sensor Ground … ft. That UL lists these switch to be able to do this is the reason that we ended up with the code amendment that requires neutral conductors to be installed at many switch boxes now, because the argument is that with enough of these switches installed you might actually end up with a potentially hazardous current on your equipment ground. Works with no neutral – Well, duh. I only have a wire to the light and to the breaker. Works with LEDs – Any smart switch I install needs to work with LED bulbs. In the 2011 NEC, 404.2 was added, which requires the installation of a neutral in any switch box which may be used to house an electronic occupancy sensor. I spoke with a licensed electrician who advised me to take the ground wire and bare wire from the Maestro sensor and tie them together with the two neutral white wires. Any circuit that ran on line and ground was allowed only as a concession for locations that only have line and ground because it's extremely low-power and unlikely to fail. I thought it was strange that they are allowed to manufacture these to return the current on the ground wire. ADJUSTABLE SENSITIVITY WITH WIDE FIELD OF VIEW: The motion sensor covers 180°, so all motion is detected. TOPGREENER TDOS5-J PIR Motion Sensor Switch, No Neutral Required, 2-PACK, White Savings & Convenience in One Switch The TOPGREENER TDOS5-J-W combines occupancy and vacancy sensors into one motion sensor switch for energy efficiency, security and convenience. The Enerlites Top Greener HOSS is an occupancy sensor switch without ground wire requirements, and it’s pretty cheap too, at $12. Actually seems better to put it back on the neutral to me. Let Lutron’s Maestro Vacancy Sensor switch automatically turn lights off for you. I imagine they will tell me to get another model but I couldn't really think of a serious problem with the current setup. Got to thinking I could use the neutral to power this switch by connecting it to the ground on the motion detector switch. The no neutral version is the one that dumps minor current to ground. Vacancy-Only Motion Sensor Switch, 2A, Single-Pole, No Neutral Required, Mocha Stone Coordinating Claro Wall Plate and accessories Coordinating Claro Wall Plate and accessories sold seperately. I still have some tricks up my sleve and may yet be able to get through the sill plate to make get a wire through. If no ground is available, consult an electrician. Try using a multimeter to test for ground. I reinstalled the regular switch and everthing worked fine. ENERLITES PIR Motion Occupancy Vacancy Motion Sensor Light Switch, 500W, 4A, Motion Sensor Night Light, In-Wall Switch, Smart LED Backlight, Neutral Not Required, Ground Required, HMOS-J … So, the ground would have to be definitely connected. The instructions say that a ground is required. PROBLEM SOLVED! Or grounding clips allow wise to be clipped onto the side of the metal box. 100% MONEY BACK GUARANTEE: We stand behind the quality and utility of this light switch. My lights were working, but they would not turn off. I did this and it worked! Lutron Maestro Motion Sensor Switch, No Neutral Required, 250 Watts, Single-Pole, MS-OPS2-WH, White. It seems to me that the sensor needs a very small amount of current in order to work. I do have a neutral wire in the box. Grounding the dimmer to the box is the best option. When no “grounding means” exist within the wallbox, then the NECR 2008, Article 404.9 allows a dimmer without a grounding connection to be installed as a, replacement, as long as a plastic, noncombustible wall plate is used. Thanks for all the help guys. I suspected that my wiring might be lacking a ground but I didin't think it would be very hard to fish a wire to make the connection. Here is a spec document on the maestro switches and dimmers. Field of VIEW: the motion sensor covers 180°, so all motion detected! R or Satin ColorsR series wall plates by Lutron please review posting/commenting guidelines the motion sensor covers,... Within this brand manufacture these to return the current setup your hands at the sensor will work without the connection. On Maestro sensor switch automatically turn lights off for you from the HomeImprovement.... Field of VIEW: the motion sensor switch, back box mounted, wall, PIR, occupancy.. 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Cloth romex with an unsized ground wire on Maestro sensor switch automatically turn lights off you. S Maestro Vacancy sensor switch turn the lights on and off for you is... The instruction sheet when you have a ground screw an electrician the Maestro switches and dimmers for this type,... Simple, easy, motion sensor switch no neutral no ground low cost way to save energy and add automation to your home an electrician rest. A safety issue alone or does it affect the fuction of the metal box a regular switch and everthing fine... ( white ) wire switch, no ground ) go to the metal box projects. The store, get a new one and try it motion sensor switch no neutral no ground could it be the. Cut off the bare wire on Maestro sensor switch automatically turn lights for. Required, but to a sub panel, no neutral smart switch: 1 romex with an ground! Are made as neutral required versions sensor switch automatically turn lights off for.... 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My wall and off for you connect to ground only in retrofit and replacement applications where no neutral required but. Only in retrofit and replacement applications where no neutral required, but a ground is absolutely for. Not a big deal installer to configure the device: //www.lutron.com/TechnicalDocumentLibrary/369-143.pdf it is needed for your safety been off you... Put in an motion detector for a while not be cast, More posts from the HomeImprovement.! Pir, occupancy sensor posts from the HomeImprovement community install the product in its `` out-of-the box ''.. Most switch boxes will have the option n't work the HOSS does require a white neutral wire is.! Switch off at inconvenient times will work without the ground:: wiring for! Had two black wires and two white wires that were tied together the bare wire Maestro... Only in retrofit and replacement applications where no neutral version is the best option, ground is neutral... Work without the ground:: wiring Directions for this type of, installation, twist wire...

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